Paranoid over Webb Decorations

First topic message reminder :

Is it just me or are these yet another "cottage industry" decoration on a Webb undecorated vase"

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120519175763

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120519197010

These two vases seem to have similar qualities are four other "suspicious" decorations on Webb vases.

By now, many of our Club members have recieved the August issue of the Fairy Lamp Club Newsletter. Hopefully, you have read the article "Webb Decorations - Original and Not So Original". Due to the available space, I only addressed the colored enamel decorations (Hawthorn/Prunus) and postponed addressing the gold decorations until the November issue. I have the examples illustrated in this thread but I could use more. If you have examples of "not so original" gold decorations on antique art glass, either post them here of send the pics directly to me.

Thanks
Jim.

Because most of these items are being sold on ebay by one seller in the UK, would it be a good idea for someone to notify ebay of the fraud? I don't know how seriously ebay takes the allegation of fraud or since the seller doesn't make a claim that the decorations are original with the piece, if ebay would do anything. Just asking. G. Hill

Another example of modern gilt decoration on antique art glass. These decorations are showing up on a variety of antique art glass items. No one should have any doubts about this example. But, I suspect there are certainly many beginning collectors who may be taken in by these items.

Now that we have shown numerous examples of these modern decorations, what do you think? Are collectors knowledgeable enough to spot them? What does it do to the value of the art glass? What will be the impact 20, 30, 50 years from now?

If you happen to see one of these items in an antique shop, ask the dealer about the authenticity and let us know how the item is presented.

Jim.

It would appear that the same suspicious gold decorations are showing up on other pieces of antique art glass. Following are a few recent examples:

For comparison, I thought I would add this Webb Burmese fairy lamp (R-678) decorated in a gold Woodbine design.

I am not an expert on Webb decorations. However, I do have quite a few in my collection, along with Mt. Washington. I believe the hawthorne/prunus decorated pair are after-market. I also believe the gold decorated pair are after-market. First of all, they don't look quite right. The colors are a little too garish. Most important of all, there is not the detail, subtlety, or depth of the Barbe decorations. The Barbe decorations have what I call shadow leaves. In many of these questionable pieces, the shadow leaves are an opaque green color--very unlike the subtle Barbe work. In the pair you have just pictured, it appears to me that the decorator has tried a new technique to give the shadow effect, but hasn't been successful. It is possible this decorator is painting over faded original decoration, but I am not convinced of this. It is interesting that this decorator has only painted in the prunus/hawthorne pattern so far that I am aware of--until now. He/she has branched out to the gold decoration on the second pair you picture. Who knows from here? I have seen gold painting on Webb burmese on occasion, usually perfume or scent bottles or as accents on colored decoration, around the rim, etc., but never in this style on burmese. Maybe someone else has seen this style on burmese and would like to weigh in on the discussion. In any case, the gold looks much too shiny to have aged for more than 100 years. I suspect that someone has gathered many undecorated burmese pieces and is painting them in order to bring a higher price. Unfortunately, the uninformed, uneducated, and unsuspecting are falling into the trap. What this will mean for the decorated Webb burmese market is the question.

genden70 wrote:Well, well, what does it all mean for collectors?

It certainly means that anyone who invests in quality antique art glass needs to be knowledgeable in their area of interest. As third party decorators become more skilled and techniques are improved, it will become harder and harder for the even the experience investor to make good decisions.

The following auction from the same seller as before is a good example:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220646771103

When I first saw this auction I thought it would be a nice pair of decorated Webb vases to add to my collection. Upon closer inspection, however, I am not so sure.


Parts of the decoration seem to be original but other parts appear to be "retouched". I would be interested in your opinion.

The following link will take you to all the auction photos:


Finally, Take a look at this auction from the same seller.


I don't have any experience with gold decorations and would be interested in what you think of these.

Well, well, what does it all mean for collectors?

Here is a Webb/Barbe-like decoration on a Fenton lamp cup.

Probably not the same artist as the other examples.

Jim.

I have recieved the following from Horncastle Glass Studios.

"The answer to your question is yes, this is one of my epergnes and no the decoration has not been carried out by me or on my behalf, but added after the sale."

While it confirms the decoration is "modern" and eliminates one source for the decoration, It does not provide any leads to who is doing it.

Jim.

If you select the “View other items” from the seller of these last two pieces, you will see a variety of “Hand Painted” Burmese glass for sale. Most with the same design, but others with an Art Deco style.

We may be getting closer to who is doing these decorations. I just sent a note to Nick Inman, Horncastle Studios, in the UK about this piece:


I am sure the epergne is one of his, but I am not sure if he also did the decoration. If he didn't, perhaps he knows who did.

Stay tuned.

Jim.

Call me stubborn but.....There is little doubt in my mind that these items are being decorated by someone other than Webb. (Some, however, still will disagree.) I suspect undecorated pieces are being decorated to increase their "value" and the decoration is "modern." Our challenge is to discover who is doing it.

Thanks to pointing out this example.....I am keeping a record of these and other "unusual decorations" and will publish an article in our Newsletter in the not too distant future.

Jim.

Ebay #220547325429 seems to me to fall into the suspect pattern category. It seems to be burmese, but the shape is also unusuall--almost like it was cut down.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220547325429

I notice that many of these pieces are coming from the same seller, while other pieces are being offered by another seller in the same area. It’s not like some are in the US and other are in the UK. They are all out of the UK. Either this seller purchased a collection, or they could be the outlet from who ever is doing the painting. Has anyone else noticed this?

Is it just me or are these yet another "cottage industry" decoration on a Webb undecorated vase"

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120519175763

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120519197010

These two vases seem to have similar qualities are four other "suspicious" decorations on Webb vases.